This story is not a new story. It actually happened last year and while I had seen some brief reports of it on the news, I didn’t know the whole story. My son shared an article with me earlier in the week. I didn’t rush to post on it because I wanted to do a bit of research and try to find the whole story. I know what the media has painted, but the article, complete with video, that my son shared went a bit further, which made me really want to know more. The video painted a chilling picture, but it left too much out, so I went looking. I found what I was looking for. I wanted to know what started the altercation that cost a mentally ill, homeless man his life. I wanted to know why the police jumped him the way they did. Their lawyers claim that he was refusing to cooperate, was combative, suspicious, appeared to be on drugs. I just had to see for myself. Let’s start with what my son shared with me. Please watch the video.
Here is the article:
2 Fullerton, California Officers Ordered To Stand Trial In Death Of Beaten Homeless Man
Kelly Thomas died 5 days after that altercation and I could show you what he looked like in the hospital after they cleaned him up, but it would make you sick. They just about beat his face off. He was almost unrecognizable as a human being. I only saw his face. I don’t know how badly the rest of his body was injured. There are several problems with this incident. The first problem is that he had no shirt, no shoes and was unarmed, so this was already excessive force. While Kelly was not completely cooperative with the officers at the first, the first threat of violence was from Officer Manuel Ramos, the heavy-set officer that is initially talking to him. I did find the whole video. I did see how the events unfolded and I will share it with you, but first I would like to share with you what the Orange County District Attorney, Tony Rackauckas had to say in the press conference he gave explaining why he decided to charge the officers.
So here is the second problem with this…….Kelly lacked cognitive skills, enough to understand what was expected of him. He was said to be mentally ill. He was in fear for his life at a point and he was being threatened. He was trying to cooperate, though he was a bit mouthy, but the officers were not really being very clear about their intent. First they told him if you just give us your name we will leave and you can go to bed. He was homeless, claiming to sleep in or near trash cans. They then searched his backpack, which he gave them, finding some mail addressed to an attorney, so they assumed that he stole it. He may have, or it may have been in the trash, I don’t know. I do know this, they could have arrested him for resisting arrest without violence for being verbally uncooperative at the start, but they did not need to do what they did, because before all was said and done there were 6 officers on Kelly tazing him and beating him repeatedly, with billy clubs, their fists, even the tazer and one officer was repeatedly kneeing him with all of his might, and Kelly was screaming “I’m sorry dude”, repeatedly. “I can’t breathe”, repeatedly. There were 6 heavy officers on top of him, with a couple of them sitting on him, refusing to move, even after he went silent. At a point he was screaming for his dad and before he went silent he was screaming for God to help him. They didn’t even want to take the cuffs off of him for the ambulance to take him, when they were told he could no longer lie on his back because he would aspirate on his own blood. He was completely unresponsive and they had to check to make sure he was breathing and they still didn’t want to take the cuffs off of him. When they finally loaded him up, there was a large puddle of liquid on the pavement. It was his blood. There was apparently a security camera at the bus station where this happened, that caught the whole incident on film. I must warn you, the language is graphic and while you cannot really see Kelly while they are beating and tazing him, it is hard to watch. It is 33 minutes and 32 seconds long, but it shows the whole altercation, from the moment they approached him and begin to talk to him (at first), as the beating doesn’t start until about 16 minutes into their encounter.
Now to be fair it is being reported that the officers were called to investigate some vehicle thefts, or a vehicle theft (it is a bit unclear) in the area. They targeted Kelly, which they should have looked at everyone hanging around the area, but remember what District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said, Officer Ramos knew Kelly. He had spoken with him before……So was he just suspicious of him that night, or did he want to get him off the streets? The way he went about it was not the answer, especially when he was the one that threatened violence from the moment he shook his fist in Kelly’s face and threatened to hit him. Kelly never struck any of them. That, to me, says Ramos wanted to hurt him. To add insult to injury, there was a whole bunch of people hanging around on the opposite sidewalk, that were filming it with their cell phones, so the area was not desolate. There were a lot of people around, so Kelly was targeted. This happened on July 5, 2011. The date of the first article I gave you was May 9, 2012, reporting that a Judge decided two of the officers would stand trial, Officer Manuel Ramos and Officer Jay Cicinelli, almost one year later. The District Attorney announced the charges in August of last year.
I do realize this case has had some media coverage, but probably not as much as it should have and definitely not as much as some of the “high-profile” criminal cases of recent times. This case, to me shows the character of law enforcement officers that should never have been law enforcement officers. Only 2 of the 6 officers that did this were charged. While I have the utmost respect for the good officers of the law that serve the public (and there are many), this was probably one of the worst examples of abuse of power that I have ever seen. This just should not have happened.
CLARIFICATION: I NEED TO MAKE A CLARIFICATION IN THAT I ORIGINALLY SAID THAT 3 OFFICERS WERE CHARGED AND 3 WERE NOT. I HAD CONFUSED MYSELF ON THE ISSUE. IT WAS ACTUALLY ONLY OFFICER RAMOS AND OFFICER CICINELLI THAT HAVE BEEN CHARGED AND WILL STAND TRIAL, SO ACTUALLY 2 WERE CHARGED AND WILL STAND TRIAL AND 4 WERE NOT CHARGED.
ONE OTHER THING YOU MIGHT LIKE TO KNOW….KELLY HAD NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL IN HIS SYSTEM AT ALL. I DID FIND THAT SINCE WRITING THIS ARTICLE.
THANKS TO CARLA FOR POINTING OUT MY MISTAKE.
well officer ramos is a murderer…..plain and simple.
he knew kelly from before……he had to be aware of his mental problems and inability to cooperate.
he was the ringleader……he let the situation get out of control and did nothing to stop it. he also had nothing on kelly other then mail theft?
SERIOUSLY?!?!?
“this happened on july 5th 2011′
well i can see why we overlooked it lol
I do agree with you. He could have instructed Kelly to walk over to the car and put his hands up while walking, then the two of them could have instructed him that they were going to take him into custody, read him his rights and probably would have gotten him to put his hands behind his back and should have done that if they were going for mail theft or resisiting arrest without violence or both. It would have been a much better alternative. I say this because Officer Ramos spent way too much time with the whole put your feet in front of you, put your hands on your knees and all of the back and forth. It is almost as if Ramos wanted to get himself worked up enough with him to find a reason to hurt him.
Yeah! That was a bad day!!!
A message to Fullerton Police Chief, Dan Hughes…
“As members of the Fullerton Police Department, we strive to provide responsive and professional service to the community we serve. The Department recognizes the importance and responsibility of maintaining the highest degree of public trust.”
Ok, first of all, this paragraph is bullsh*t in light of the Kelly Thomas case. So, can I just ask, WTF? I mean, your officers caught Mr. Thomas abusing a child, right? Because then he would have deserved what he got. No, wait, your officers discovered Mr. Thomas raping a woman at knifepoint. Then I’d understand why he was beaten. Oh, let me guess, Mr. Thomas had a gun and was pointing it at your officers. That must be why he was killed by them.
I’m just trying to figure out what Mr. Thomas did that was SO d*mn bad that your officers had to beat him to death….literally. And, Chief Hughes, you are insultingly pathetic if you expect your citizens to believe that your officers acted in accordance with their duties and responsibilities. Mr. Thomas was insubordinate and uncooperative, but he wasn’t harming anyone, other than the macho, abusive personalities that were running rampant among your officers. In fact, Mr. Thomas actually apologized to your officers in the middle of the beating and pleaded for his life with some of the only breaths he could muster. But…
Just like those with criminal mindsets who thrive on forcing their victims into subservience just so they can punish them even more when they’re down, and that incredible rush of adrenaline that provides a sense of arousal when violent, your officers are no better than the criminals your department is supposed to hinder and eradicate.
Gee, I hope that none of my friends are discovered shoeless and hungry in your part of the world by Fullerton Police. Because I wouldn’t hesitate to clearly indicate on their epitaph how they brutally died at the hands…and batons…and knees…and tazers, etc. of the criminals employed by the Fullerton Police Department!
OHMYGOD!!! My heart aches for that man. When he was screaming for his dad to help him, I lost it. Officer Ramos appeared to be a bully to me. It seemed he was looking for an excuse to beat the crap out of him. Maybe because he was homeless he found that mail in a trash bin or something. Who knows.
Why didn’t they ask Kelly if he was on “SOMETHING” instead of saying he had to of been on something? I don’t get it. He didn’t appear to be drugged to me.
Kelly sat on the ground in compliance for a full 15 minutes before Ramos snapped on his latex gloves and started threatening him. Eventually there were 6 officers (all MUCH larger than Kelly) supposedly trying to subdue him. Why didn’t two just take his feet and apply cuffs or quick tie type restraints – another two could have held his arms which would have left the remaining two to apply handcuffs.
Niecey, the video showed a totally unnecessary beating which 5 days later ended in the death of a homeless man who appeared to be harmless.
Totally agree with Scott and Shyloh that Ramos provoked the fight. The District Attorney stated that Ramos had met Mr. Thomas previously so he should have known about his mental disposition – I suspect Ramos was attempting to cover up his brutality by saying that Kelly was ‘on’ something.
I hope all 3 officers who have been charged get the maximum sentence – Ramos especially.
Thankyou for bringing this travesty to our attention Niecey – I hope that when the trial commences you will be able to keep us informed.
I agree Shyloh. Completely. To me, Officer Ramos really wasn’t interested in arresting Kelly, because if he was he would have done it instead of the testosterone dance around he did to get himself all worked up to beat him. I agree Ramos appears to be a bully. Good points!
I agree Jill. This happened all wrong. I cannot see how the first two officers couldn’t have gotten him cuffed with the other 4 helping to put him in the car. Kelly did have his hands up more than once. I do not see that he was looking for a fight at all, just a bit smart mouthed, was about the worst I saw or heard. When they were screaming for him to put his hands behind his back they were trying to slam him down on the pavement, which his reaction by bracing with the other arm would be a normal reaction to try and protect the head and face from an impact.
I also suspect that Ramos was covering himself with the other officers by exclaiming he was on something. I also hope they get the max.
You’re welcome. I will keep and eye on this one, so as to keep you informed.
Wait, I’m confused…THREE officers have been charged? I thought it was only the two, Ramos and Cicinelli, that were charged. Well, in the above vid of DA Rackauckas, he only states TWO have been charged, and just about clears Wolfe (officer #3).
I’ve been upset about this ever since I saw Rackauckas speak, and here’s why…
If this were an incident not involving police, but just laypersons, EVERYONE who participated would be charged. Remember the ol’ cliche’, “Ignorance of the law is no excuse”? Well, DA Rackauckas is essentially saying that the officers that joined in after the onset of the beating were ignorant as to how it was initiated, and just assumed the suspect required being subdued.
FURTHERMORE, even the 3 or 4 officers that joined in this *ss-kicking, could reasonably discern that the subject was already subdued. Shouldn’t Thomas’ pleading for “Dad”…or “God” have been their LAST clue…as in there were multiple clues beforehand that this was unnecessary and brutal force?
So, I’m really mad…I mean, fuming, that ALL weren’t charged, not to mention stripped of their badges. As per my comment above (once it clears moderation), this was a gang mentality provoked by vented hostility and violence. I firmly believe all broke the law and abused their authority when they assaulted this man, but…
Are there any links to witness statements, the witnesses who captured this incident on video?
i think the other 2 will get lesser……manslaughter if its available.
but ramos masterminded this whole thing. he will , and should, get the max.
Welcome Carla!!! Thank you for the clarification on how many officers were arrested. I confused myself with Officer Wolf being talked about, as well as the DA saying the other 3 were not charged. I did fix it in the post.
Let me also say that I did approve you from moderation on these 2 comments, but I didn’t on the one about THM, simply because while I know you were trying to tell me what happened (which I appreciate), it did sound a bit rough on Val and that wasn’t my point. I hope you understand that. That may have been your perception, but I don’t think it came accross as you may have intended it. Thanks for your understanding.
I do understand where you are coming from on this one. I actually agree with most of what you said. I do, however think that there are likely some good cops there. I do agree with you that nothing Kelly did warranted that. NOTHING!
I really do agree with you that if this had been private citizens they would have all been charged. I’m sure I can provide you with some of what the witnesses were saying. BRB
My apologies Scott
, as Carla pointed out (which I appreciate), it was the 2. I went back and reviewed and I confused myself with the DA speaking about Officer Wolf, though he did go on to say he didn’t believe Wolf was at fault, but he did also later say the other 3 would not be charged. That was the source of my confusion, but Carla is right it is just the 2 officers.
I do agree that Ramos, being the ringleader and leading the other officers to believe things that were false to keep them on board, as well as his initiation of the whole thing, will take the big fall.
No need to apologise Niecey – I too was confused into thinking that 3 officers were to be charged – thankyou Carla for setting the record straight.
I am sow sorry…
And believe me!!! that I cry like a baby seeing that video I can’t imagine the pain and suffering that Kelly pass thru and hering him asking for forgiveness and claiming for Gods Mersey it brakes my heart more. Sorry if any misspelling but I’m learning to write English. But my cry and pain is for the Familly and Kelly him self. hope justice be serve lots of cops abuse there power and that diablo Ramos will pay and will get everything he diserved and the others to.
Welcome Ivelis! It was heartbreaking. I’m very sorry this happened as well.
I think you are doing very well on your English.
I totally agree with you. Very well said!
It is no wonder people get away with such horrendous acts. The world is full of people like myself who just cannot deal with knowing the truth and turn away. I hope there are some very strong people out there who will be able to bring this killer to justice. Talk about a hate crime.. this has to be a killing fueled by hatred. No hone, no shoes, no shirt, no weapon, no drugs… obviously he was just a worthless human taking up space in this cop’s jurisdiction.
No kidding, Marica. And in a way, doesn’t it just change your perspective on your own demeanor toward officers? Because you never know when you’re going to run into a bad one who is about to explode. I once encountered a macho cop when I made a wide right turn onto a two-lane road and corrected my position by righting myself into the far right lane. Though it wasn’t an actual lane change, as I had just marginally crossed over into the other lane when making my wide right turn, a cop pulled me over for failing to signal (and btw, NO ONE else was around…no other drivers….the road was empty…so my lack of a signal didn’t actually confuse trailing drivers or impede traffic). I KNEW this cop was being over-zealous and had nothing better to do than to badger someone, and at one time as he was checking my license, he caught a smiling expression on my face and by golly, the expression on his face went to sudden sternness, like his blood pressure rose because of my smile. He leaned into my vehicle window and asked if something was funny, and boy oh boy did I play it off by NOT answering honestly about how ridiculous this stop was when he could be out there fighting real crime. I said, “Oh, it’s nothing…I’m just embarrassed. That’s all.” Luckily, he bought my response, and you could see his blood pressure lower as the red flush color and muscle tension in his face dissipated. He replied, “Don’t be embarrassed. It happens to all of us.” But, my point is, that I understand that these are the types of cops, who if they don’t get their *sses kissed, and get absolute control over the most minute, trivial aspects when directing citizens, they fly off the handle like a pressure cooker that’s lost its lid.
By DA Rackauckas’ account, Kelly wasn’t deliberately trying to avoid following directions, he struggled with cognitive reasoning and Ramos had zero patience for anyone’s handicap that night.
What really troubles me is sometimes there are apologies even from criminals who seek leniency….but none from cops. Not only have we NOT heard an apology from Ramos, Cicinelli, Wolfe, and the other 3 officers, no apologies have emerged from the Fullerton PD. In fact, it’s my understanding that the police chief has DEFENDED his officers with that ridiculous statement that they all acted in accordance with the law. Whew! Good thing the DA thinks otherwise.
My sympathies go out to Kelly Thomas’ mom and dad.
Carla, This is one of the witnesses being interviewed:
I agree with you Marcia.
Very well said Carla. I’m sorry it took me so long to find something from a witness.
Hearing the homeless man tell of how the relentless beating continued for 10 – 15 mins was heartbreaking – this poor chap witnessed a murder in progress.
Please add my prayers for Kelly’s Dad, family and friends.
Barbaric bullly getting his jolllys beating an under privilliged homeless man to a coma an death,Had no probable cauase or permission to search his backpack so illegall search.He could have been given that mail from the attorneys.He was on the street maybe he was useing that address as a mail drop.The pig Ramos didnt ask didnt care did you see the vt of a le shoot a deafman because he refused to respond when he ordered him to stop?I hope ramos gets convicted an is subjected to some jailhouse retribtation..No I dont realy as Im not a sadist like him,Should spend a long long time behind bars though in solitary as an ex policeman whom murdered an innnocent mentaly ill fellow human.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjFsmTDWuQ This is the shooting of the homeless partially deaf man in Seattle.He walked in front of the le patrol car carveing a peice of wood with a small poket knife.He sold his carveings on the street .The LE jumps out his car an orders him to put the knife down from behind when he didnt respond an continued to walk away from the officer .He shot him 5 times in the back killing him instantlly.
nice.
i could see if the man was still facing him with e knife, but he shoots him walking away?
coward.
It is inhuman Jill.
Ecossie Possie, I agree it was very barberic and I also agree that Ramos should do life in prison for that.
I would like to thank you for sharing that video with us. I cannot understand shooting someone in the back, when if you listen to it thoroughly, the officer says he was carving that piece of wood. It is not a crime to be deaf. What’s worse, is look at the second video from the second officer on the scene. He got there too late, but his dashcam shows another angle. Look how terribly they treat his dead body.
The reason I am so glad you shared it is because, while most officers usually serve and protect and do the best job possible, there are rogue cops that are not in it to serve and protect. That needs to be exposed and they need to be held accountable.
There is just no excuse.
Life is precious and there is no excuse for snuffing it out, just because, no matter which side of the law a person is on. Murder is murder.
I agree Scott, that was a very cowardly thing to do.
Thing is deaf or not so many people now a days wear headphones with almost invisable earphones.How was the ploiceman to no know if he was ignoring his request or simply unable to hear because of listening to music?
ecoss i could understand if the guy was stlil facing him and he felt the guy was a viable threat. like you said, how does he know he’s deaf? or how does he not know he’s not really a threat?
my problem becomes, when a guy is walking away from you, and you shoot him 5 times in the back. that is an execution to me.
I agree with both of you. In reality if the guy actually made eye contact with him, that might be one thing, but he never appeared to, which should have been a red flag. That said, even the officer admitted he was widdling on a piece of wood, which is yet another indicator. I’ve never heard of a would be robber/perp walking down the road carving a piece of wood openly before committing a deed. In my opinion, I think the officer was way too focused on the knife, rather than the whole set of circumstances.